Last year I wrote 3 blogs asking the Christian God where was He and why does He allow horrible things to transpire.
If you would like to go back & read them, here are the links:
Gone are my days of sitting in a church pew being spoon fed what to believe, not getting answers, and seeing all the contradictions & errors in all this. "Just trust in God" is not an answer. I have more respect for people who say 'I don't know the answer to that', it at least shows their weakness and vulnerability in not knowing something.
Which god should we trust in then, considering there is a nice grocery list of them to believe in. What makes all the other gods false and the Christian God the 'right one to worship'?
In my quest for truth and knowledge, I am seeing how the Bible doesn't make sense in many areas, but yet, Christians are supposed to just believe it all even if they don't understand it.
When was the last time you seen a donkey talk?
When's the last time you seen a rod turn into a serpent?
Ever see a burning tree or bush that was on fire but didn't really burn?
Ever see anyone else rise from the dead after 3 days?
Has God parted the sea and ocean again like He did early on in the OT to help His chosen people?
Etc, etc....
I suppose God can do whatever He wants and take form of what ever inanimate object around to make a point, but it's only happened once, in the Bible and we never see these things happen ever again. Why is that?
I also see how Scripture seems to either be lying or God just doesn't give a crap:
Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14
If ye shall ask anything in My name, I will do it.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit and that your fruit should remain, that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it to you.
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing. Verily, verily I say unto you, whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it to you.
John 16:24
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in My name. Ask and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
John 16:26
In that day ye shall ask in My name, and I say not unto you that I will pray the Father for you;
Matthew 7:7
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Matthew 7:8
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 11:9
And I say unto you: ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luke 11:10
For every one that asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh findeth, and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
According to these verses, all Christians need to do is ask God & God will do it, right? 11 times Gid says 'ask me'.
Dear God, please heal my loved one from cancer. I believe You will do it God because your Word says so. Thousands everywhere pray something similar every day, hoping, praying, believing so hard for that miracle.
What happens: They die.
Dear God, please take care of all those who are suffering from hunger and malnutrition. I do what I can, but you are so much bigger than I and can easily take care of the human species.
What happens: They still go hungry, thirsty and in need of medical care. Eventually they die.
Dear God, My spouse and I are too sick too work, we don't know how our light bill will stay on and we haven't eaten in 2 days. We ran out of toilet paper yesterday and our water is going to be turned off. We tried going to a food bank only to be turned away because we weren't members of their church. We don't get paid (social security) till the 1st of the month, it's now only the 20th of the month.
We tried getting help with our bills but they said since they helped us last month they can't help us again.
We believe in the power of prayer and know You will come through for us. Amen.
What happens? Their lights remained off, they still didn't have any food or toilet paper and their water got turned off.
They cry because they don't know what else to do. And yet the typical Christian says 'just pray', 'keep believing', 'have faith'.
And on and on the unanswered prayer requests go.
So, you ask in prayer. The Scripture says He will do it. You believe in faith. But the above scenarios happen instead. Over and over and over.
I thought the Bible never contradicts itself?
"But God has healed me of my headache!" "He's helped me find my keys, book, wallet, important paper, etc, etc. " you say.
Our bodies have an amazing tendency to heal themselves when properly taken care of.
That's great you remembered where you put yours keys and that important paper. Sometimes my memory is faulty as well. I still can't find the Year 6 Harry Potter box set I bought last year. I think I may have sold it, but I don't remember. The only place I ever watched it was the bedroom and it's not there. Unless I threw it under the dresser or in a drawer somewhere. It's driving me batty, but anyway, back to the topic.
I suppose though if there is a Christian God He answers those who He feels like and everyone else, well too bad, so sad...better luck next prayer request.
Can something happen against God's will?
No.
So, everything that happens is God's will?
Murder, famine, the holocaust, rape, war, starvation, etc are all God's will?
So, yeah, these thoughts / feelings are still floating about in my brain. There is more...much more. I may blog about it down the road.
It feels good to get these things out, ya know? Sometimes there is this fear in Christianity to speak how you really feel because you will get judged or looked down upon.
I don't care what you may think about me. I'm being honest and real instead of fake and hiding myself.
One can pray all they want, till their knees bleed, yet hurricanes will still come to shore, earthquakes will still happen, diseases will raid the body or eventually kill it and it will still snow, hail, rain, or be 110* whether we pray about it or not.
I am realizing the best thing to do is be the change you want to see in this world. (Gandhi). When you see a need, help that person. Give and share what you have to others, smile, laugh, dream, sing, respect people & nature and live in harmony with one another instead of hate, arrogance, intolerance and ignorance.
It's up to us if we want to see our planet healed. It begins with you and me.
Blessed be!
Love,
Dawn
38 comments:
thank you for being honest! I know exactly what you are saying and agree. prayers and blessings as you continue on this journey!
We live in a world that has fallen and this world is corrupted by original sin. Because of this, all of us sin and we ourselves, each one of us, is equally corrupted. Therefore we are more easily inclined to sin then to obey God.
Corrupted: "Cause to become morally depraved."
It is not God's will that we have rape, murder, Nazi's killing 6 million Jews, theft, etc. God's will is pure justice and love - but when He pours His will out over our corrupted world far too many people act *against* God's most holy will due to being morally depraved. They hear God's call to holiness, but they choose to ignore Him and follow Satan instead. Ever notice how those that follow godless ideologies such as Feminism and Liberalism are always so full of "feeling judged" and "feeling guilty"? That is because they can hear God loud and clear and the Holy Spirit is very powerfully jabbing them straight in the conscience: but they still choose to ignore Him and go their own way. God's pure and just will is batted aside and sin is followed instead.
This is why we live in a world that is so full of violence and crime etc. As a matter of fact, there is far more crime then goodness - but the Bible warns us of this fact, that the gate is narrow and few would be on the path that leads through the gate. We are warned by the bible not to expect holiness to be in the majority in this corrupted world.
I will continue:
The corruption caused by original sin has also corrupted our very bodies: this is why good and holy people still suffer from diseases. This is a sad fact of *this* life, that we are still at risk of suffering from physical corruption which manifests itself in the form of mental and physical diseases. Christ did not promise us perfect happiness in this world - only in the next.
People don't like this! It's not "fair" - we are an impatient creation and we want comfort and joy and health NOW in this life. And when we don't get it then our faith is shaken and we rail at God for failing us.
But if we keep forever in our minds that **we are a fallen race on a fallen world** and that this fallen existence has even corrupted our own bodies, then suddenly "it's not fair" sounds childish and immature. Rather, we start to say, "I cannot expect anything in this life because my ultimate goal is heaven."
We had paradise. We had perfect imortality. But it was thrown away. Now, because of free will, we have two choices: we can "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" and spend eternity in the new paradise, or we can allow ourselves to be consumed by the depravity of sin and we can seek our own pleasure in this life and be separated from God in the next life.
The Bible does seem to contradict itself but that is because people have the incorrect idea that the Bible contains this easy-to-understand step by step layout of the Christian Faith. This is not he case. The Bible was never meant to be the sum total of the Faith. We were also given a Church. Although the Bible is most deffinately the infalable Word of God it is incomplete, in that it only discusses Salvation History and only touches on those topics that the early Church struggled to explain to the first Christian generations. Unless we also tap into the fullness of the teaching of the Church we will always feel like the person trying to put together some furniture with what seems to be incomplete and contradictary instructions.
Christ is quoted in the Bible, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
You read that and think, well, I asked God for a job for my husband. I asked God to save those starving kids in X country. I asked God to help my friends that don't even have electricity or toilet paper - and nothing happened.
But our prayer emerges from a corrupted person and into a corrupted world. God hears you and He immediately sends His will to someone that will employ your husband, to a neighbor that will help your dirt poor friend, to a third world government that has the capability to help its own people...
But more often then not, when His will reaches their hearts they exercise their free will and ignore Him. And because God operates from free will He very rarely forces anyone to DO His will when He inspires them, "convicts" them to act in a way that is godly and holy.
(I'll continue in a new comment:)
And so, husband remains unemployed. Friends remain hungry and without electricity or even basic things like toilet paper. Little children starve to death because their sleazy corrupt governments refuse to help them - and get right in the way of any international aid workers that want to help them. And we say, "God doesn't hear us! The Bible contradicts itself!"
This is another one of those, "but that's not FAIR!" moments: the very same free will that enables us to behave like beloved children of the King also gives us the ability to choose to ignore the King. And many many many people ignore God and persue their own will. And Satan is right there ready and capable of exploiting so much as a tiny hint of selfishness... It is like a domino effect: God inspires Person A to act in a way that will, in a trickle-down-effect, help Person B who is suffering from hunger or unemployment, etc. But if Person A decides to ignore God then Person B ultimately pays the price. And so... does this mean the Bible contradicts itself or that God doesn't hear us and He lied to us? (Continued:)
Christ said, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
Why do we exist? Why were we created?
When we take into account the reasons why we exist, and we take into account the fact that we live in a terribly corrupted world where people, exercising their free will, are far more inclined to do the will of Satan rather then the will of God, and as a result even good holy people and totally innocent people suffer terribly... we can place everything into perspective.
First, we were created to love and to serve God. And our ultimate goal in this life is to spend eternity with God.
When we end up on the difficult side of things, unemployed, poor, stricken with disease, etc., it becomes our habit to pray the majority of the time for our lives to be made easier and our sufferings to cease. We spend much less time praying for salvation. We spend more time feeling anxious about our situation (will we have enough money? will we have enough food?) that we begin to lose our focus on *salvation.* As a result we end up suffering more and more and we become confused and even restentful and bitter about our situation.
But if we flip this over and we spend the majority of our time, or even all of our time, seeking to obtain salvation, then we live the same deep and vibrant holiness that brought salvation to the Saints. This is how so many Saints were able to joyfully endure hideous deaths, crushing poverty, almost complete and total social destruction, long suffering deaths to disease, etc, etc, without anxiety or bitterness or anything less then a life still lived for God and filled with the praises of God. Their entire perspective was in perfect allignment with the will of God: To love Him, to serve Him, and to seek to spend eternity with Him. (continued...)
Hi Dawn! First, you have every right to explore your feelings. We should all evaluate why we believe what we believe. And being honest is the only way to be!
I wrote a blog article a while back regarding many of the questions you have in the arena of evil and suffering. Perhaps this will help.
http://darelinagreen.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-does-god-allow-evil-and-suffering.html
You're right. We all need to take responsibility to be the change. But, ultimately, it is God alone who will restore everything.
Shalom!
While living in this way, with every fiber of their being focused on their salvation, the Saints were fully aware of the "unfairness" of living in a corrupted world. They saw just as much starvation, rape, murder, theft, and crushing poverty going on around them. And yet they did not allow Satan to whisper into their ear that, "God lies. If God was truly real, would all of these terrible things exist?"
Wrong, Satan: if all of humanity followed God then aside from our physical corruption, which cannot be escaped, the world would be a place of peace and love and no one would ever be poor. But because of YOU always pulling everyone so hard in the wrong direction, look what we have - and it's not God's fault! IT'S OUR FAULT. Humanity's fault.
Ever notice how the greatest of the Saints willingly sought poverty? Ever notice how so many of them came from wealthy comfortable homes and they threw off these riches, took on rags, and made themselves Fools for God? Why would they do such a crazy thing? Because they understood the value of "redemptive suffering." Saint Paul writes, "Now I am rejoicing while suffering for you as I complete in my flesh whatever remains of the Messiah's sufferings on behalf of his body, which is the church." Saint Paul shows us that so many in the Church will try and **escape** suffering. And in so doing they will live lives of sin. They will exchange salvation for physical and mental comfort. And yet we are to "love our neighbor as we love ourselves" and "no greather love has a man then this: to die for his friends." We, as fellow Christians, in our holy concern for the salvation of souls, should then be moved to do penance, to fast and to pray, for those that refuse to live fully for God. (Continued some more... man, it is easy to ask religious questions but the explanations are long!)
Even Christ told us that there are some demons that cannont be cast out without fasting and prayer: penance works very well at prying demons off and out of people. Those of us that already have suffering in our lives, due to poverty or physical/mental afflictions, have an amazing opportunity to joyfully offer up our sufferings in order to help to cast the demons away from those that are in bondage to sin.
And the great Saints that lived lives of comfort and health realized that they did not have this great opportunity - so they found a way to live lives of pennance and sacrifice by adopting poverty. Many would even ask God to afflict them with painful disease so that they could suffer even more - and thus be even more powerful at helping to cast the demons out of the Church.
So if we find ourselves, due to the domino effect of other people refusing to do God's will, suffering from deprivation (poverty, social outcast, etc) - or suffering physical/mental afflitions due to our corrupted human bodies, we can respond to this opportunity to help cast out demons with joy and thanksgiving like the Saints, or we can waste this amazing chance to do great things for Christ by being angry, bitter, and demanding, "WHY God, WHY?!"
Ultimately it is up to us how we respond. Is it God's will that your friend couldn't even buy toilet paper? No. God did hear your prayers and He did act - but those that He convicted to do His will decided, "No thanks, I have better things to do for myself. Please leave a message after the beep..." and good people suffered as a result. So, how did your friend respond to this unfair but powerful chance to help cast demons out of the body of Christ, His church?? Did they increase in holiness, placing their salvation at the very center of their focus? Did they grow in joyfullness and thankfullness that their sufferings would not be wasted, but in fact might assit in saving souls from hell by casting away the demons that were destroying these other souls? I'm going to continue, and I am so sorry Dawn. You are seeking the truth and oftentimes the truth is not a simple one-liner! Please forgive the length...
Ok, if more people in situations like your friend would respond to their situation in the correct manner: seeing it as a golden opportunity to cast away demons, then ***more and more demons would be cast away*** and more and more people would be made holy and they would then ***respond to God's holy will*** and **less people would suffer as a result.** The "domino effect" would fall in the good direction and more people would benefit from goodness and there would be less poverty and less suffering. Do you follow?
WE are to blame for the state of our world, Dawn. Not God. Notice how America is in rapid decline? Yet America was once THE most mighty country on the planet? That is because America used to be filled with holy souls that prayed, that sacrificed through pennance to cast out demons, and who kept their eyes on ***salvation*** as the end goal.
Now what do we have? Well, we still have many many Christians but how many of these Christians in America respond to their sufferings like soldiers armed to the teeth and able to take on the demons and drive them away? Not many, because not enough Christians understand redemptive suffering. Yet another failing of the Protestant "Reformation": ignorance of key knowledge about living the Christian Faith. And the result is what we have today: far far more evil then good in the world.
So if we take up the bible and we read these scriptures ("Now I am rejoicing while suffering for you as I complete in my flesh whatever remains of the Messiah's sufferings on behalf of his body, which is the church.") from the perspective of only seeking our salvation, then we see exactly what we need to pray for: not that we get the job or get the food or have the electricity turned on, but that, "God, SAVE MY SOUL and let me help cast out the demons that are dragging so many into eternal damnation. I offer up all of my sufferings today in union with Your crucifixion in order that Satan will not dominate our world."
Dawn, we are not supposed to spend most of our prayers asking for jobs and food and health. We are supposed to spend our prayers asking for salvation - and offering up our sufferings to help drive out the demons that cause so much of this suffering.
If all Christians prayed from this perspective then the world would be an amazing place, with far far less poverty and suffering and crime. And then we could read the passages that say, " Ask and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full" - and our joy would be full.
We are going about life from the wrong direction. Praying for food and a job is like putting a bandaid on a huge wound. We need to pray most of the time for our own salvation, for the salvation of souls, which would result in more holiness, which would cast out more demons, and which would then create a much much better world with much much less suffering.
It is not easy to be holy. It takes an incredible amount of hard work and self discipline to remain in God's grace. We are not exactly tapping in to God's grace when we are busy complaining about how hard this life is - when we should instead embrace our sufferings, cast out those demons, and teach others to do the same.
I sure hope all of this helps in some way... God bless and God love you!
I totally agree with "I am realizing the best thing to do is be the change you want to see in this world. (Gandhi). "
Have a wonderful weekend.
Love and Hugs
Kris
Also I am sorry that someone decided to use your comment section to write comment after comment preaching at you
So Michelle, You say that this is all because of original sin. And you think people are going hungry because of that dirty nasty Feminism. Well, aren't you being a Feminist sitting here on the computer spouting these ideas? Arent you going against a woman's place according to the bible.
1 Tim 2:8-11
1 Tim 3:14,15; 2:11-15
1 Tim 5:9,10,14
1 Cor 14:33b-35,37
Eph 5:18, 22-24
1 Pet 3:1-6
1 Cor 11:3-10
The God of the Bible decrees that woman must submit to the dominance of man.
"The social and legal position of an Israelite wife was inferior to the position a wife occupied in the great countries round about... all the texts show that Israelites wanted mainly sons to perpetuate the family line and fortune, and to preserve the ancestral inheritance... A husband could divorce his wife; women on the other hand could not ask for divorce... the wife called her husband Ba'al or master; she also called him adon or lord; she addressed him, in fact, as a slave addressed his master or subject, his king. The Decalogue includes a man's wife among his possessions... all her life she remains a minor. The wife does not inherit from her husband, nor daughters from their father, except when there is no male heir. A vow made by a girl or married woman needs, to be valid, the consent of the father or husband and if this consent is withheld, the vow is null and void. A man had a right to sell his daughter. Women were excluded from the succession."
-Roland de Vaux, archaeologist and priest
also Michelle,
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)
"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)
Comment
A woman who gives birth to a child must undergo a purification ritual lest her "uncleanness" contaminate others. This not only entails her isolation, but also payments to priests for the ritual acts. Thus the male dominators had even made birth dirty.
Notice here that if a woman bears a female child, her isolation must last twice as long as that if she gives birth to a male child!
The Bible and the church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of woman's emancipation.
"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)
Judges 19 describe a father who offers his virgin daughter to a drunken mob. When the father says "unto this man do not so vile a thing," he makes clear that sexual abuse should never befall a man (meaning him), yet a woman, even his own flesh and blood, or a concubine belonging to a perfect stranger, can receive punishment from men to do what they wish. This attitude against women still persists to this day and we have the Bible, in large part, to thank for this attitude against women.
Verse 25 describes the hours long gang rape of the poor concubine. The Bible gives not one hint of passion or concern for the raped girl. Considering that many people believe that every word in the Bible comes from God, it should not surprise anyone why people still use these verses to justify such atrocities.
Man enjoys the great advantage of having a god endorse the code he writes; and since man exercises a sovereign authority over women it is especially fortunate that this authority has been vested in him by the Supreme Being. For the Jews, Mohammedans and Christians among others, man is master by divine right; the fear of God will therefore repress any impulse towards revolt in the downtrodden female.
Michelle, you says the bible is infallible please answer the following...
Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has an error in the depiction of night being separated from day. According to Genesis, God created light and separated day from night on the first day. However, the sun and stars which produce light weren't created until the fourth day. Since the sun is what separates day from night, that separation couldn't have happened until the fourth day. So what happened on the first day? plus the moon isn't a light like the bible claims...it just reflects the sun
God tempts no one.
James 1:13- Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
God does tempt!
Genesis 22:1- And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
And why would Jesus ask this, if God tempts no one?
Matthew 6:13- And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
2 Samuel 24:1- And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1 Chronicles 21:1- And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
--------------------------
Deuteronomy 2:19- And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession, because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession.
Joshua 13:24- And Moses gave inheritance unto the tribe of Gad, even unto the children of Gad according to their families.
25. And their coast was Jazer, all the cities of Gilead, half the land of the children of Ammon, unto Aroer that is before Rabbah;
Leviticus 11:5-6 Rabbits (Coney) chew their cud and because of this they are unclean. Last time I checked, rabbits don't chew cud.
According to the Bible, our brother mammal, the bat, is a bird. Leviticus 11:13 a list of Fowls is started, and the Bat is included in this list in Leviticus 11:19.
The locust, grasshopper, and beetle all have four feet according to Leviticus 11:22, then in the next verse, it mentions a group of flying animals with four feet. I can't think of any.
I could name many more errors in the bible Michelle if you would like me to go on
Dawn, I've been where you are. And, as a former Christian, I can tell you with complete and total honesty I am the happiest I have ever been. No longer do I have to be comforted by the platitudes of, "The Lord works in mysterious ways," and, "We humans are too simple to understand God." No, I am much happier believing that sometimes, shitty things just happen in life. There is no deity in charge who may or may not intervene. And I think the universe is so much more complex and rich and full and beautiful without the ridiculous idea that some higher power made it so with the proverbial snap of his fingers.
As far as the Bible....isn't it funny that the thoughts and laws and rules and customs of a supposedly transcendent being sound a lot like those of a primitive nomadic man from thousands of years ago?
I spent the first half of my life as a christian. A bible thumping christian, at that. But I grew up, and left behind the fantasies and fairy tales of my youth. The journey you're on takes courage. You will find that you lose people in your life who just can't accept you unless you believe like they do (a very hypocritical stance). Sometimes you have to let go of people.
You will find that non-believers, as a rule, are accepting and non-judgmental. OF course, we don't have a book of rules that we follow. ;-)
If you have a Facebook account, please check out the group Recovering from Religion. You may find it helpful to talk with others who are in the same boat as you are.
https://www.facebook.com/RecoveringFromReligion
Also, their website:
http://recoveringfromreligion.org/
I wish you the best. Feel free to contact me at any time.
Years ago, we were discussing this very thing at the Grandview church, and the men were talking about WHY did our prayers not get answered. One man who was visiting said that we need to remember that Rev. 19:13 says"his name is the Word of God." So in other words, when Jesus says whatever we ask in "his name" we will receive, it means when what we ask lines up with the Word of God, because that's his name. I don't know, it just made such perfect sense to me. I have never wondered those verses since that time!
You say that, "Christianity seems to be leaving me empty and makes no sense." Well, that's normal and we all have to suffer through it. You are experiencing a dark night of the soul and no soul can advance in the faith without suffering through these "plateaus." (just like you experience when working out and losing weight.)
Sorry but there is no "get out of suffering free" card in life. If anyone thinks for one second that they can live life with or without Christ and somehow magically not suffer then they are in lala land. In our modern aproach to the Christian faith we somehow get this goofy idea that it's so easy: pray our prayers, study our bibles, and rainbows and flowers fly out our arses and we all live happily ever after, full of lovely warm emotions and consolations and, well, paradise on earth. But no, paradise isn't to be found here in this life so why waste our time trying to find it?
Sanctification HURTS. And sanctification is for Big Girls, not weakly things that can't handle the purification. It is a painful and frustrating process with more doubt and humiliation and sacrifice then we would like to admit. Why do you think so many flee from the Christian faith and fight the Christian faith tooth-and-nail? Because they are wimps. Cowards that cannot handle self sacrifice and suffering. So they race into the secular world and chase after the easy things, entertainment and giving in to their own demands. They can't handle being Christians. But on the flip side, observe the deep and vibrant joy of the Saints. But this joy is only available once they got over themselves...
You write: "The more I read and study the more error and contradictions I see." Well, I say this to everyone that makes the same claim: I might be able to respect such a statement if you actually went and earned your PhD in Theology first but otherwise...Huh? Suddenly you're a deeply trained theologian that has the knowledge and the authority to declare that there are errors and contradictions in the Faith? All on your own in your house in Texas? You're *impatient.* You want to understand everything *now* and you want to feel good and have everything make perfect sense... again, easy. Everyone always wants the faith to be easy: easy to understand in a short period of time, easy to live... and then when that doesn't happen fast enough for their taste they run away.
You have two choices here, Dawn: you can face the reality that being Christian is not easy, it is not some constant waterfall of emotional warm fuzzies, and you can give up, tuck tail, and run away. Or you can stick it out like a fighter and keep asking your questions and keep seeking the Truth and refuse to give in to the idea that for some reason you (but no one else) is somehow except from suffering and being confused and frustrated and fed up as you do your best to live **and mature** in the Christian faith.
We don't become Christian and then get everything we want in life like God is some kind of bubble gum machine. It doesn't work like that. I'll pray for you, Dawn, that you don't throw away the Pearl of Great Price just because you discovered that the Christian faith is neither simple nor easy: it can't be simple or easy, for God Himself is complex beyond human understanding. Even the Bible says we have to progress from milk to meat - well, that progression is neither simple or easy or painless. God bless you, sister.
Gandhi. Good ol' Gandhi always held up as this amazing bringer of peace into our world.
But poor Gandhi lived to see his experiement fail and saw for himself that while his ideas sounded great in theory, in reality they opened a very bloody pandora's box.
Gandhi was a good man and he did manage to do much good in India but as a direct result of his push for Indian independence at that point in time Inda was torn apart by civil war with the Muslims. As we say in America, why fix it if it ain't broke? Well, Ganhdi demanded a fix and Inda ended up very broken.
With the British gone Pakistan was born through bloodshed and war and the world has paid the price ever since: Pakistan remains at war with India. Pakistan has given us the Taliban. The Taliban has caused how many thousands of American deaths?? Pakistan hid Osama Bid Laden even as America paid Pakistan millions in aid money and Osama Bin Laden's men continued to kill Americans... and Taliban terrorizm continues to claim victim after victim every day with big fat crosshairs over America.
No, Gandhi didn't have it right. He thought that he did and so did many of his followers but Gandhi's demands for Britain to give in to his will led to far more horror then Britain could ever have caused.
So be careful when you uphold Gandhi as a person that caused so much good in this world...
If you're going to make the extraordinary claim that a god exists, I'm going to need some substantial evidence. And by substantial, I mean more than a poorly written book of myths (that is full of contradictions).
Dawn, you're not weak. You're not a wimp. You don't need a god to sustain you and comfort you and make you better. YOU can do this crazy thing called life, all on your own. YOU are a survivor. At my last MRI appointment, my neurosurgeon said, "You're alive because you have a big, happy angel sitting on your shoulder." And you know what I said? I said, "I'm alive because of YOU." And I was talking to my neurosurgeon. HE is the one who kept me alive. Science, reality, knowledge, and skill kept me alive. Not some invisible being.
I mean, seriously. How easy for some perfect being who just sits up there in his heaven and judges us and condemns us for being what he made us to be. But he's merciful and full of love. Yet he would torture those who dare to utilize their free will and not believe in him. SUCH a ridiculous concept! How can reasonable, sensible, logical people believe in such a thing??
Have to add more....I am NOT teaching my precious children that, due to some woman eating an apple, they are damned to hell, unless they believe in a super exclusive but loving and accepting being who says you can do you want, but you must believe in me, or you're damned to an eternity of torture and pain. Can no one else see the foolishness of this?? I am NOT teaching my kids they are so full of "sin" that a man had to be tortured on a cross in order for them to be redeemable in the eyes of some deity.
Michelle,
I do agree with you, most of the diseases we have today we cause ourselves by what we put into our bodies, what we breathe, what we drink and what we do with our time (are we active or lazy?).
And most of those diseases can be reversed and even cured if people would stop being so drugged up by Big Pharma and their pill pushers.
Yes, yes, I know the Catholic Church gave Christians the Bible and both the Church and Bible are to be obeyed.
You're preaching to the choir on this, ya know. :)
You wrote:
"God hears you and He immediately sends His will to someone that will employ your husband, to a neighbor that will help your dirt poor friend, to a third world government that has the capability to help its own people...
But more often then not, when His will reaches their hearts they exercise their free will and ignore Him. And because God operates from free will He very rarely forces anyone to DO His will when He inspires them, "convicts" them to act in a way that is godly and holy. "
So if these people that God has called to help another ignores that call, why doesn't God intervene again until some one decides to actually do something?
So, He is going to let people suffer because people are too lazy to get off their rear-ends and lend a helping hand?
You said "And so, husband remains unemployed. Friends remain hungry and without electricity or even basic things like toilet paper. Little children starve to death because their sleazy corrupt governments refuse to help them - and get right in the way of any international aid workers that want to help them. And we say, "God doesn't hear us! The Bible contradicts itself!"
The Bible itself even states that Christians are to trust in God more than man. Your comments are about self centered lazy people who don't want to help when a need arises.
I am talking about heart felt cries from Christians who don't have a clue how their needs are going to be met and they hold on to that promise of "it is better to put your trust in God rather then men".
You stated "When we end up on the difficult side of things, unemployed, poor, stricken with disease, etc., it becomes our habit to pray the majority of the time for our lives to be made easier and our sufferings to cease. We spend much less time praying for salvation. We spend more time feeling anxious about our situation (will we have enough money? will we have enough food?) that we begin to lose our focus on *salvation.* As a result we end up suffering more and more and we become confused and even restentful and bitter about our situation.
We are not supposed to spend most of our prayers asking for jobs and food and health. We are supposed to spend our prayers asking for salvation - and offering up our sufferings to help drive out the demons that cause so much of this suffering.
We are going about life from the wrong direction. Praying for food and a job is like putting a bandaid on a huge wound. We need to pray most of the time for our own salvation, for the salvation of souls, which would result in more holiness, which would cast out more demons, and which would then create a much much better world with much much less suffering."
What makes you think Christians do not pray for the salvation of others? That's all great and good but the reality for many if the here and now and how they are going to survive when their lights go out because their husband hasn't worked for 3 years no matter how hard he tries.
They don't know where their next meal is going to come from and their only car got repossessed, but just pray for the salvation of someone else, and everything will work out a-ok? Yeaaaaah... okay.
Make sure you tell that to someone who is starving or dying or just don't know what to do next after believing God for a miracle and trusting Him with every fiber in their being, and yet nothing happens for them.
Michelle,
You stated
"WE are to blame for the state of our world, Dawn. Not God. Notice how America is in rapid decline?"
Of course, it's gone to crap. Anybody can see that. I wasn't blaming God for the demise of our pitiful country. Although I reckon if He wanted to, He can restore it if He wanted too.
You stated
"we are not supposed to spend most of our prayers asking for jobs and food and health. We are supposed to spend our prayers asking for salvation - and offering up our sufferings to help drive out the demons that cause so much of this suffering.
If all Christians prayed from this perspective then the world would be an amazing place, with far far less poverty and suffering and crime. And then we could read the passages that say, " Ask and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full" - and our joy would be full.
We are going about life from the wrong direction. Praying for food and a job is like putting a bandaid on a huge wound. We need to pray most of the time for our own salvation, for the salvation of souls, which would result in more holiness, which would cast out more demons, and which would then create a much much better world with much much less suffering."
That's all great 'n everything, but people are living in the real world with real problems and they can sit and pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, pray (which is a good thing), they still have real needs to be met.
You stated
"Sorry but there is no "get out of suffering free" card in life. If anyone thinks for one second that they can live life with or without Christ and somehow magically not suffer then they are in lala land. In our modern aproach to the Christian faith we somehow get this goofy idea that it's so easy: pray our prayers, study our bibles, and rainbows and flowers fly out our arses and we all live happily ever after, full of lovely warm emotions and consolations and, well, paradise on earth. But no, paradise isn't to be found here in this life so why waste our time trying to find it?"
You're right, suffering takes place whether people believe in God or not. Nobody is exempt no matter what they believe.
I do agree most of Christianity has been so watered down, feel good, clap your hands and repeat after me, Jesus loves you, kum-by-yah crap that when something threatens their happy existence, they are clueless as to what to do.
You stated
"Why do you think so many flee from the Christian faith and fight the Christian faith tooth-and-nail? Because they are wimps. Cowards that cannot handle self sacrifice and suffering."
That is a load of crap. Many people leave Christianity because they began thinking for themselves, researching for themselves, reading for themselves and learning instead of being spoon fed by the church and preachers about "living for God".
They decided to use their brains and intellect.
They are neither cowards nor wimps and they sacrifice and suffer just like the rest of us. They aren't excluded from the pain and woes in this world whether they believe in the christian god or worship a stupid tree.
Nobody is exempt from the trials of life.
Michelle,
You stated
You stated
"You're *impatient.* You want to understand everything *now* and you want to feel good and have everything make perfect sense... again, easy."
You are wrong. I'm a pretty patient, roll with the punches, go with the flow type of girl.
You stated
"You have two choices here, Dawn: you can face the reality that being Christian is not easy, it is not some constant waterfall of emotional warm fuzzies, and you can give up, tuck tail, and run away."
Can you please stop talking to me like I am a 5 day old Christian who is stupid and knows absolutely nothing? Thanks, I'd appreciate it.
Having a relationship with God isn't about warm fuzzy feelings. Again I am not some stupid immature girl who doesn't know anything.
You stated
"Or you can stick it out like a fighter and keep asking your questions and keep seeking the Truth..."
If you hadn't noticed...that's exactly what I am doing. Asking questions, thought you could see that from my blog post
You know, I've always liked quotes from people. I don't care who writes them or what they did in their life, what they believed or didn't believe. If a quote is good, I like it and will share it.
By the way, Kris has left you comments on here. Are you going to answer them? It would be rude not too, especially since she is talking to you.
Now if you excuse me, I need to get on my broomstick and go pick up my husband from work. :)
Hi Leslie! :)
Nice to 'meet' you.
Welcome to my little world on the Web.
I feel happy and free just being able to come out with my thoughts. It's like a weight has been lifted.
I know I would get back lash and retaliation and that's okay. I'm all for free speech.
Between my blog and Facebook page, people seem to think I am running off animal heads and sacrificing babies to satan because I dare question God and the Bible.
I never once in my blog said 'God, you don't exist'. That's what I am trying to figure out.
I even still go to church with my husband & participate in worship. I haven't gone anywhere.
Just finally exploring life outside the proverbial Christian box and seeing what's out there without the church world going 'that's wrong', 'that's evil', 'that's sinful', that's this, that and everything else.
I had been shackled too long in fundamentalism and now I've broke free. Free to be me. Who ever that may be.
Call me crazy (or just a girl with an imagination) but I believe in angels. Also in my little world, I like to think there are unicorns, gnomes,leprechauns, fairies, dragons, etc. still out there. :) No, I'm not on any street drugs. :) But the tooth fairy, easter bunny and santa claus have been debunked long ago. :)
I do understand where you are coming from and I thank you for coming on here and sharing your thoughts with us. :)
You're always welcome here! :)
blackroseheart,
Evening greetings! :-D Thank you for your comment.
I actually did check out the website you mentioned and just snooped around. Thank you.
Jules & Darlina,
Love you girls! :)
Hi Dawn, I went through my quest for truth about a year ago after 2 years of struggling with the nature of god and then ultimately... was he even there. For me it's been a very positive step to ask these questions and seriously seek out an answer. I watched (and still do) many debates, hearing both sides. Reading and educating myself on things like cosmology and the big bang, evolution, and the history of the bible. This video really helped me during this time of uncertainty: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-i-am-no-longer-a-christian/ I would also recommend debates with Bart Ehrman, Dawkins, etc... I hope that you find a good support system with friends that love you for you no matter what you end up believing or not believing.
Michelle Therese, isn't going to respond to me is she?
Probably not. But on behalf of her defense...she's got a lot going on right now (I talked to her on the phone yesterday morning).
Dawn, I can understand a lot going on but if she has enough time to preach all she did on here then she should take the time to respond too. The problem is (for her) that there is no defense to the things I said.
Pardon me, Kris. I was "preaching it" to Dawn, not you. I don't owe you a reply just because you felt the need to butt in. And if you think that I am going to play this game on the **defense**, scrambling to prove to you that indeed my position is capable of being defended, think again.
But for Dawn's sake I will respond thus:
Kris, I read everything that you have written here and from what you say you obviously do not understand the *Catholic* approach and understanding of the Bible. It's not my job to do your homework for you.
In light of this your many arguments here are nothing more then the buzzing of a itty bitty gnat against the backdrop of salvation history, explained and expounded upon by some of the greatest minds in humanity, augmented by heavily witnessed supernatural miracles, and maintained intact for over six thousand years.
And yet somehow YOU, "Kris" of Somewhere, YOU are so much more informed then ***thousands of generations of great Patriarchs and Saints*** that I owe you a defense of this same Faith? Really?
"How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"
They knew, they all knew, the Patriarchs and the Saints, the Popes and the laypeople, those that loved God through all of these passing ages upon ages: they knew that only a few would find God and the rest would separate themselves from God by their pride.
God bless you, Kris, and may He give you the grace to know Him and love Him and obtain salvation.
~Michelle Therese
Post a Comment