The Catholic 10 Commandments
The Bible's 10 Commandments
Anyone see a difference?
I was thumbing through my Bible and a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and thought 'hmmm something looks off in this Catechism'.
Oh yes, the 2nd Commandment according to the Word of GOD is missing.
Now why would the 2nd Commandment just go missing like that? That 10 Commandments were written by the finger of GOD and given to Moses...way...way...way before the Catholic Church wrote the Catechism.
I guess the 2nd Commandment about not making graven images and bowing down to them wasn't important.
But, to be fair, in all the Catholic Bibles I have, and I do have many, various versions, the 10 Commandments in Exodus and in Deuteronomy are exactly the same as in a 'normal' Bible.
Now why do you suppose the Catholic Church felt it necessary to mess around with GOD'S Holy Commandments like that?
My Catholic friends...stick with your Bibles. It is your only true, reliable source. Need help with interpreting things? Grab a good sturdy dictionary and concordance (Hebrew & Greek). Most of all, pray diligently that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to see and mind to soak in the truths. We all need to be doing that.
Yah Bless,
Dawn
40 comments:
The Catholic "church" took it out because they worship idols. I guess if they remove it from their "Bible" they feel better about their idolatry.
Catholism is a false religion. Here is a good site that compares the Catholic catechism to the Bible:: http://whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk.htm
Thank you Megan.
I know that Catholicism is leading many astray. I used to be Catholic myself. :)
I am married to a Catholic man and we have some pretty heated discussions on things. It's great though because it gives me a chance to show all of what Yahweh has been teaching me, ya know?
The more I study my Bible, the more truths are revealed to me. I see the errors in many different faiths, not just Catholicism.
We are in the last days and Yahweh is opening more eyes and hearts than ever before to souls who will heed, listen and obey. :-)
Thank you for your comment!
Blessed day to you!
Oh brother, Megan! I am a Catholic. I don't worship idols, thank you kindly.
Dawn, this is an old, tired argument that has been answered countless times. Here:
"Hiding the Second Commandment?"
Another charge sometimes made by Protestants is that the Catholic Church "hides" the second commandment. This is because in Catholic catechisms, the first commandment is often listed as "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3), and the second is listed as "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex. 20:7). From this, it is argued that Catholics have deleted the prohibition of idolatry to justify their use of religious statues. But this is false. Catholics simply group the commandments differently from most Protestants.
In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten Commandments, there are actually fourteen imperative statements. To arrive at Ten Commandments, some statements have to be grouped together, and there is more than one way of doing this. Since, in the ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were always united—idolatry being the outward expression of polytheism—the historic Jewish numbering of the Ten Commandments has always grouped together the imperatives "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic numbering follows the Jewish numbering on this point, as does the historic Lutheran numbering. Martin Luther recognized that the imperatives against polytheism and idolatry are two parts of a single command.
Jews and Christians abbreviate the commandments so that they can be remembered using a summary, ten-point formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy," though the commandment’s actual text takes four verses (Ex. 20:8–11).
When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry is summarized, Jews, Catholics, and Lutherans abbreviate it as "You shall have no other gods before me." This is no attempt to "hide" the idolatry prohibition (Jews and Lutherans don’t even use statues of saints and angels). It is to make learning the Ten Commandments easier.
The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about how the Ten Commandments are to be numbered, however. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, "The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confession. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities" (CCC 2066).
To be continued...
(BTW I'm not mad! make sure you read this comment with a normal, not-angry voice :-)
Now, Megan, Dawn, can the two of you tell me:
When was the bible completed, as in, when were all of the books decided upon and the bible sealed so that no books could be added or taken away?
Where did this take place?
And by whom?
Also, what books were in the bible at that time and...
Finally, which bible ~ Catholic or Protestant ~ has remained unchanged? How did one of the versions, Catholic or Protestant, come to be changed.
I would lik to see real answers, not quotes from Jack Chick tracts and other anti-Catholic materials! Do your homework **yourselves** instead of relying on hearsay from anti-Catholics.
I'm serious! So many of you "Bible believing Christians" make such rediculous charges against us Catholics... but most of you don't even have a clue about the true, documented history of the Bible. Then you come after us Catholics and expect us to take you seriously!
Here's a good book for all: "Where We Got the Bible." Trust me, it didn't fall from the sky in bonded leather with thumb-tag indexing with the words of Jesus in red letters! God used **human beings** to put the Bible together. Before you non-Catholic Christains level your charges, you should know what you are talking about first. But be careful:
"To know history is to cease to be Protestant."
The above quote in my first comment was taken from:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
Last, but not least...
If you are a non-Catholic Christian, you are a Protestant, even though the fad lately has been to renounce that title. I guess because folks are catching on that Protestant means "Protest-ant" and this means "In protest against the Catholic Church."
Which means: "We exist only because of our protest against the Catholic Church."
But let's face it: If you are *not* Catholic then you are holding to the ideals of the *Protestant* Reformation, which was actually a political power-grab and not a religious reform.
Protestant Christianity cannot stand on its own without pointing an accusing finger at the Catholic Church. In order to exist, Protestant Christianity has to validate itself by constantly protesting against Catholicism. This is the only reason that Protestantism exists. Protest-ant-ism: a faith built on protest against something else.
Meanwhile Catholics can be Catholic without ever having to say one word against our Protestant brethren, whom, unlike many of you, we call our "separated brethren" and do not deny are fellow Christians. This is because non-Catholic Christains have the essential elements of Christian faith. We still see you as fellow christians, not cultists etc. But you are fellow Christains that are in protest against us.
A Catholic knows when and where the bible was put together. A Catholic knows when and where the Christian church was established, and by whom. A Catholic can trace all dogma from now straight back to the bible ~ unchanged over the past 2,000+ years. We have an unbroken, fully documented chain of Church leaders from whom Jesus first appointed to now. Do Protestants have any of this? No. Your specific church have a history that *might* go back to the 1400's but no futher. Anything beyond that is myth that is not upheld by any solid proof. Many of you are lucky if your present churches are ten years old, or even 200 years old. And if your present church goes back 100+ years there is a great chance that it's been "reformed" since then, and even "reformed reformed" so it's not even the original church that was founde post-Reformation.
Meanwhile we can trace our Bishops back to the 12 Apostles. We even know exactly where the 12 Apostles went, what churches they established, and how and when they died.
What about you? And how do *your* churches connect with the leaders that Christ Himself appointed over the Church?
It always amuses me how those that denounce Catholicism then go and follow **new** churches that were established by one single MAN 1500+ years after Christ established His church and said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail!"
And yet what do so many of the "Bible believing" Christians claim? That Christ lied. That the gates of hell *did* prevail and Christains were reduced to a "golden thread" in hiding until the Protestant Reformation set them free.
Personally I don't care what church people decide to join. But do you ever ask yourself: Who established your church? Jesus Christ Himself... or a man? Is your church named after a man?? "Catholic" = "Universal" As in, "The Universal Church."
We are not Mennonites or Lutherans, Amish, or Weslyians, or Calvinists. We are not named after a man that thought he knew so much better then 1500 years of already existing Christianity.
(BTW the orthodox christians are not cut off from the Catholic Church. They are still a part of us. So they are not Protest-ants.)
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm going to hedge my bets by sticking to that which **Christ** established, even if there are unholy evil people to be found within. Christ Himself said that there would be chaff in the wheat and HE would deal with it. Therefor it's not our job to splinter off and try and re-establish a "pure" church. And then splinter again and again and again whenever we disgree with something within our churches. Which is Protestant Christianity in a nutshell, starting with the first great splinter known as the Protestant Reformation.
Questions:
Who gave the Catholic Church the authority to re write history?
Was it St. Augustine who tweaked the Commandments? If so, why?
...............
The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of GOD on the Mount.
Man has went and rearranged that.
Why weren't they left alone? The way GOD told them to Moses?
It has nothing to do with their length.
Also, I have looked everywhere for proof that the Jewish people shorten or abbreviate the ten Commandments and I can't find any information anywhere on that.
Always learning......
I don't know where you got this picture or what church this was, but I have never seen anything like it in my church (I'm Catholic). I teach my students (I'm a Sunday School teacher) ALL 10 commandments. Also, remember that there are two sets of commandments in the Old Testament (Ex. 20 & Deut. 5). They are similar but are not in the same order.
I'm taking you off my blog list. I can't have you teaching false teachings on my blog. Sorry.
Rhonda
Pages 496 and 497 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church has a diagram showing Exodus, Deuteronomy and then the Catholic version of it which has been changed. It's right there for all to see.
In all the Catholic Bibles I have, the Commandments have not been messed with. They are preserved and written just like GOD wanted them to be.
So, why were they messed with according to the Catechism?
I am not putting the Catholic faith down, I am just looking for a Biblical reason to my post.
Yah Bless!
Orthodox, the Anglicans and the Lutherans also number the commandments that way. I am looking at the pages of the Catechism of the Catholic Church you gave and can't see where the Catholic Church changed the commandments.
Dawn you might like to read "Where We Got the Bible" Our debt to the Catholic Church. by Henry Graham
Megan have you ever asked a Catholic if they worship idols? Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see if Catholics worship idols? Have you ever read any of the Church fathers? If you do you will find that they are all Catholic. Catholicism was founded by Jesus Christ. Who founded your denomination?
Great reply Coffee Catholic to the tired old "Catholics changed the commandments."
Victoria,
I did find what Dawn was talking about in the Catechism. I don't know what version she had. I have the small white version. It was on page 551-552. The Catechetical version lumps the 1st and 2nd so they could separate the 9th & the 10th just as they did in Deuteronomy. This makes for easier memorization for smaller children. When teaching, we expand on the 1st and 2nd. I can see why it would be confusing, though.
As for the Bible being the only reference for our faith, please read the essay at this website: http://www.catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp. I'd expand on it here, but there is way too much material for a comment.
Rhonda
"To know history is to cease to be Protestant."
Good to know how you really feel, Coffee.
"Meanwhile Catholics can be Catholic without ever having to say one word against our Protestant brethren, whom, unlike many of you, we call our "separated brethren" and do not deny are fellow Christians. "
Yet you just said something against them- a lot of things. And you are hardly the first Catholic to say something against Protestants. Come on now! "Many of you" Catholics have and do speak against them.
"Many of you are lucky if your present churches are ten years old, or even 200 years old."
There was a time when your faith was only 200 years old- did that make any less real then?
So if Catholicism didn't change the Commandments, how come none of the Catholic churches keep and honor the Sabbath day...like the Commandment says in all of our Bibles?
The Cathechism seems to have changed that to 'the Lord's Day' of course and that is not the same thing as the Sabbath.
Maybe do research and see why your church decided to change a holy day of worship. You might come out quite shocked at the information you find.
Jesus never changed it. The apostles never changed it. The church in Acts were still keeping God's Holy Day (Sabbath).
God sanctified and set apart the Sabbath for us. Man went and changed that.
Jesus himself said He is LORD of the Sabbath. Didn't say He was Lord of the 1st day.
I may make a new post of all that Yahweh has been opening my eyes to on the Sabbath and how we as a church have been lied to for centuries. I am only scratching the surface of this subject though and am only in the baby steps of learning everything.
But so...anyone care to answer why in all of our Bibles we are to remember the Sabbath and the Catechism changed that?
The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, correct? Well then, which day are you keeping? God's or man's?
I say all this in love because over the past year Yahweh has opened up not only my eyes but thousands of other's as well, to His truths in His Holy Word.
He is showing us how we have been lied to by the father of lies himself.
You may dislike me and that is fine. But I am quoting from the Word of God and not anything else.
I love all of you and I thank you all for being peaceful and decent on here.
My blogging days may come to an end soon in a few weeks / months, we'll see. Doing too much studying in the Word and growing and changing every day.
Off I go.
What do you MEAN we don't honor the Sabbath? Your arguments are getting worse and worse. This is the last posting I'm making at your blog until you make some sense. You need to sit down and have LONG talk with your husband about the Catholic Church. Then you BOTH need to sit down with a priest. Because you obviously have NO idea what the Church stands for or what it believes. I am a convert to Catholicism. I came from a Southern Baptist background but realized to have the FULLNESS of the faith, I need the Holy Catholic Church that was founded by Jesus Christ HIMSELF. I will NOT follow one of the 30,000 Protestant denominations that broke away because of heresy. You have a lot to learn.
Rhonda
Sunday is not the Sabbath Rhonda.
Dear one, do you have a calander? If so, take a look at it.
It goes from Sunday to Saturday, correct?
Well count the days on it. It ends up being Saturday the 7th day and Sunday the 1st day of the new week.
In the Bible days were measured from evening to evening (sunset to sunset) not midnight to midnight like we have now.
These aren't arguments Rhonda, these are truths straight from God's Word. They are not my own. You can see them for yourself in your own Bible.
No one seems to be answering my questions I have been posting....
All I get is alot of 'your wrong' comments but no one has answered my questions.
I am not using articles or books, I am solely using God's Word.
That's how we learn, through His Word.
Blessings to all!
Jewish Ten Commandments.
1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."
2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d, such as worshiping G-d through an idol.
3. Prohibition of Oaths
This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.
4. Observance of Sacred Times
This category is derived from Ex. 20:8-11, beginning, "Remember the Sabbath day..." It encompasses all mitzvot related to Shabbat, holidays, or other sacred time.
5. Respect for Parents and Teachers
This category is derived from Ex. 20:12, beginning, "Honor your father and mother..."
6. Prohibition of Physically Harming a Person
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."
7. Prohibition of Sexual Immorality
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not commit adultery."
8. Prohibition of Theft
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not steal." It includes within it both outright robbery as well as various forms of theft by deception and unethical business practices. It also includes kidnapping, which is essentially "stealing" a person.
9. Prohibition of Harming a Person through Speech
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." It includes all forms of lashon ha-ra (sins relating to speech).
10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14, beginning, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."
Judaism, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism, considers "I am the L-rd, your G-d" to be the first "commandment." Catholicism, unlike Judaism and Protestantism, considers coveting property to be separate from coveting a spouse. Protestantism, unlike Judaism and Catholicism, considers the prohibition against idolatry to be separate from the prohibition against worshipping other gods. No two religions agree on a single list.
Did my comments help clear anything up? our just make it more confusing?
Boy, you're really getting it today, aren't you? For you, Dawn...I would pray that you will realize the gift of being a living (rather than talking) witness to your husband, as the bible charges wives of non believing husbands. Notice...I did not say non "saved", for I know a few catholics that are saved. When Christ did miracles on the sabbath, He freaked the Pharisees out. Now...we know that His doing so was to proclaim He was Lord of the Sabbath, and that man should not be caught up in his own righteousness. Christ did many things contrary to how the 'Jewish' calendar was set up. Kept freakin' out the place! LOL...because of who He IS. The God of the Jew and the Gentile alike.
If God called you to observe Him in rest on a Saturday; so be it. However, wives SUBMIT to your own husband as unto the Lord.
If there is heated discussions, there is an absence of peace.
I won't even discuss the others comments here. My heart is as a sister in Christ to you. If Christ has set you free, you are free. You can 'come alongside' Robert in a way that doesn't have to isolate him in his wanting of how to walk a walk of faith.
He is isolated. Alone. His wife (you) left him to follow Yah. But...in God's word, God says to live 'without a word' to the effect of winning the heart of your husband.
Go to church with him. Be by his side. Trust God. I hope you don't close down your blog. Remember, any time you're talking here, using a tch, tch at anyone while proclaiming to love them...comes off way wrong. If God has shown you His way in the manner of living isolated within your marriage; that is enough for me to pray for you and Robert. Because, as long as a man sees his wife spurn him, he cannot be encouraged toward the love of God she believes he's missing out on.
I'm afraid I cannot see your husband seeing alot of love from God in 'your' description of what loving and living for Him is about.
I was catholic, too, Dawn. You have opened a giant abyss. Even so, and if you were led by the Lord...don't not take the heart of those who are here to mind.
Just remember: God cannot be explained. He is God. He is above our understanding. My second child just left our home to go live with her boyfriend. I am devastated, as are her father and sister. I will not sugar coat anything with her. But right now...she somehow thinks we will not love her. The time will come to speak of His ways...and right now, we are not chatting up the phone lines. Separation and prayer (our home) and hopefully seeking (her place) for the Savior.
We can speak the truth...we are called to do so. But...we should not alienate nor isolate. My daughter knows she is in sin...this is why the frantic emotions and tears over the phone the other day with me.
Robert can be told you don't agree. If things get heated...pray. It is harder to be quiet and trust. Words come too easy!! Even if they sound 'valid'. Quiet trust. And show Robert he has value to God...instead of showing him his ways and thoughts are rejected by not being alongside.
I'll be praying.
As for Transformer person: you do not know it all.
Oh Eileen!!!
I had been thinking about you lately and was wondering if you were still alive. :) It's good to know you are. :)
Oh those heated discussions between me and the hubster were years ago. We have sinced learned how to discuss Biblical matters reasonably...by talking. :)
His interest in the Bible, church, prayer, the things of God aren't much a priority for him though.
I keep praying that his heart will catch on fire and he will begin putting those things before all the fleshly things that we so like to do.
I keep praying and give my heartaches over to Yah...or write in my journal...or both. :)
I don't nag him, don't drag him down, but just keep encouraging him the best I can.
I can't force him to read the Bible. I can't force him to go to church. Can't force him to pray. He has to have his own walk with Yahweh.
But I can keep on praying and keep on living my life the best I know how for Him and let him be won 'without a word'. :)
Robert allows me to serve Yahweh however I want too. He doesn't stop me from doing anything...except he said I can't wear a hijab. :)
I don't get in his way when it comes to his walk with God.
I can't walk his Christian walk for him and he can't walk mine.
We are in unity in many Biblical subjects so we use that as our strength. :)
I thought about your 'tsk tsk' comment. You're right Sis. I will go and delete those words. I think I was typing faster than my brain was processing that day and didn't proof read my post.
Thank you!
Have a good restful evening!
Again, it's good to hear from you!
Dawn: I had to vacuum first. Here's one question answered:
"Was it St. Augustine who tweaked the Commandments? If so, why?"
No. It was Calvin and other Protestant Reformers:
(This is just one small bit taken from an entire article, which can be found here ~ http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp )
(Note: "Decalogue" means "Ten Commandments")
"The early Christian church, received this catechetical tradition from the Church Fathers, especially Augustine. He relied heavily on the Decalogue as presented by Moses in Deuteronomy 5. Thus, until the late Middle Ages, children memorized the commandments in the order as we still know it from the Catechism. Even after the Reformation, Lutherans and Catholics agreed on this enumeration and arrangement.
Calvin and other Reformers, relying more on Exodus 20 and its presentation of the Decalogue, and wanting to make a strike against the statuary and icons in the Catholic Church, enumerated the commandments in a different way. Based on this new sixteenth-century re-presentation of the Decalogue, many denominations in America now teach the commandments much as they were seen on the Alabama monument. Thus one can see a problem would be created if public squares or public schools were allowed to display the Ten Commandments: Whose version should prevail?"
So, as you can see, Augustine did teach the Ten Commandments, but he did so **from the Scriptures** while the Protestant Reformers went out of their way to sow division and strife between Catholics and Protestants by adopting a **different** arrangement then had been used for the previous 1500 years.
This division and strife continues to be sown today for no real, necessary reason.
Could you make this a post so other Christians can see that we Catholics have not taken any of the commandments out of the bible in order to worship idols, etc? So that this misunderstanding can be cleared up? So that, if anyone wants to judge us Catholics about the Ten Commandments, they can do so from fact rather then fiction?
I posted waaaayyy too many long comments so I deleted 2 :-)
P.S. I was going to say before the baby started wailing LOL! :
As you can see, neither Catholics or Protestants are wrong. This isn't about "Catholic Vs. The Bible." And, there is not a "Catholic" and then a "Protestant" version of the Ten Commandments. There are two different variations, together, in the Bible itself. (Ex. 5 and Ex. 20) So one of us uses one version, the other uses the other version. Neither of us uses a "tweaked" version that is not found in Scripture.
Sadly, Calvin and some of the Reformers wanted to **cause trouble** so they chose the Exodus 20 version to do just that. And this persists to this day. "Look at those bad Catholics! They hide the 2nd commandment so they can worship idols!"
**Sigh**
Keep something very important in mind: An idol is something that we honestly believe is a God in and of itself. A statue of Mary is not considered a God by any Catholic. Neither are any other statues or sacred artwork. Therefore, having statues and images of Earthly things etc does not automatically = "idolatry." If so, you would be just as guilty for every photograph, little angel statue, etc that YOU have. If this is the case then the only response is a **Muslim** response and that is to not even have pictures on the walls of anything that is on Earth. Not even scenery!
If ya'll can't stand the Catholic way of doing things I highly doubt you're about to go all Muslim!
Also, did you know that the Bible commanded that places of worship be decorated with images? And that God used various physical objects to transmit His power and bring healing? (The bronze serpent, the bones of a dead prophet, a hankerchief carried by the Apostles...)
The physical is not the problem. God is not afraid to use physical, inanimate things to transmit His power for the good of people. It's when these physical objects become GODS in our eyes that we commit idolatry.
Another helpful quote from the article:
"Thus the syntax of Exodus 20 can look like two commandments: prohibition of polytheism and prohibition of making carved images. But the syntax of Deuteronomy 5:7–11 shows one commandment, prohibition of idolatry (especially involving carved images that represent other gods or Yahweh). So Catholics are justified after Augustine (following Deuteronomy) in seeing a single commandment in the opening verses of the Decalogue. This, of course, affects the whole counting of the commandments up through the tenth commandment."
(It's Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. Sorry, I made an error earlier.)
**Baby Wailing in Background**
Second question:
"The Catholic Church re-wrote history."
I'm sorry, Dawn, but the burden of proof rests with you on this one.
You have to first prove that the Catholic Church has rewritten history ~ all 2,000+ years of it. Please cite your sources as well.
Don't make the usual mistake of Protestants which is to skip from the Apostles straight to the Reformation. There's 1500 years of **documented** Christian history in-between those times!
The Reformers have nothing to do with it.
These are the following Catholic Bibles we own: RSV, NRSV, 2 NAB's, Douay Version and a TEV.
I have looked at them all and they all remain untouched in Exodus and Deuteronomy. They were not shortened. No words are missing. Nothing is paraphrased.
Put a Bible next to the Cathechism's version and you will see a big difference.
And in case anyone is wondering, the Cathchism I have is uh, hmm...doesn't really give much info. It does say 'Libreria Editrice Vaticana' and is brown in color made by Liguori Publications.
Yah Bless!
Dawn,
I read as many of the rude comments as I could stomach. I would like to say to the persons accusing Christians who are not Catholic of hating the catholic church a thing or two.
I am a NON Catholic Christian. I do not and never have hated the Catholic church. Thanks for including me into your assumptions. I appreciate it. Really I do. It just justifies why I couldn't be catholic if I wanted to. I respect anyone and what ever faith they choose to follow. I do not like being included in the assumption that all Christians are the same. Because we are not.
Reason I don't want to be catholic. Why pray to Mary or for Mary when she isn't and never has been a saint or a God(Hail Mary) or repent to your Priest (confession) when God is right there waiting for you to talk to him directly?
You can be catholic all you want. But please refrain from dragging every Christian down with your hatred for them. We are all not the same. Not all of us hate Catholics. Not all of us can live the catholic life style. Does that make us wrong? NO. Does that make you Wrong? No. Does that make us right? No. does that make you right? NO. GOd is the only one in any of this who is right. And last I checked it was up to him to decide who was really saved and going to heaven. Not us mere puny humans.
Who died and made you or me or anyone else God? Obviously not God. So let him sit on his throne and rule his kingdom. And handle matters his way.
Choose to get along no matter what someone's faith is and stop what seems the never ending condemnation of people because they do not believe as you do.
I do not believe the same as Dawn but I have a great deal of respect for her.
Please also remember humans are full of flaws and make mistakes on a regular basis. So please put your big girl or big boy panties on and stop having a cow over stupid stuff. If you want to have a cow about something. Worry about your salvation and your walk with God. Not everyone elses. It isn't your job to fix, please, or wait on others it is your job to fix yourself and to please God.
So sorry I am not Catholic. I am not Mennionite, Mormon, Jewish, Jehovah's Witness, etc. I am a Christian plain and simple. Christian means Christ follower. Not Protestant or Catholic. So all you people who throw all Christians into the "hate catholic" category, get over yourself already. You have shown more hate then has been shown on this blog ever since Dawn started it.
Sorry Dawn that you had to deal with such rude posters. I enjoyed reading your post. And my MOTHER who was raised Catholic loved reading your blog as well. She said you made the same points she has been trying to get Catholics to see for years. As much as I repect the catholic faith I just can't go down the road to become a catholic. There are a lot of things that they do that do not sit well with me. And I could list them but I will not.
People just remember we are all human, no one is perfect, we all have faults. God put us here to please him and to lead others to him. Not debate or argue over who's religion is right, first, or better. In the end it won't matter. God is the one who will decide if you did right. Not your church or religious affiliation, priest, saint's, etc.
Oh Angie...you just opened yourself up to get whooped...lol. Well that's if I have any readers left...lol.
I don't think anyone is being mean to me on here.
I see everyone being as respectful as they can be, which I appreciate.
If someone is mad at me, they really aren't mad at me, they are mad because I am presenting the truth to them.
I am using the Holy Bible and their Catechism as my proof.
I am not using some Internet article written by man.
Oh how the truth hurts...Yahweh is always molding me and shaping me and my flesh keeps screaming 'NOOOO, No more!'.
But then I submit to Yahweh and the pain of my over dramatic behavior prior is gone and I am filled with so much joy. :-)
I don't claim a denomination either. Just following Yahweh and Yahshua and the Word the best I know how and how They lead me. :)
Shabbat Shalom!
Big hugs! If you didn't live so far away I would come see you. But it will be a while before I do any vacations since we just got home from one on Sunday. I have the next 8 weeks off from school starting Monday. And I am trying to figure out if I can finagle money just to go see her since I haven't seen her in like...5 years.
If you could please pray for me. I just have a feeling that the people that know I have the next 8 weeks off from school are going to try to get me to "get to work" on stuff. And the whole reason for me requesting this next 8 weeks off is so that I can de-stress and relax. We've had 3 deaths in our family and our house fire and my aunt came to live with us while she works on getting on SSD and I didn't take time off at all from school during those times within the last 12 months. So I haven't had a chance to just "be" if you know what I mean? I've already started my "not gonna be your lacky" attitude and some people are not liking it. But as my parents always tell me when they are picking on me...except I am being serious when I say it.. you're an adult do it yourself! I've been under a lot of stress and busy busy busy. So this next 8 weeks I am very much looking forward to. As is everyone else it seems but for very different reasons. "Oh yay! Angie is free for 8 weeks what exactly can we get her to do for us?" and Angie says "NOTHING!!!!!"
Big hugs!
IdahoAngie aka Angie LOL
wow I totally left out a thought...
I want to go see a friend that lives a few states away and am trying to figure out if I can finagle money to go see her.
There we go! lol. No not stressed at all! pfffftt :P
I beg to disagree with Coffee Catholic. It was the disciples of Christ whoi were the first denomination. The Roman Empire... well we know what happen there so let's not go through history lessons again.
One other comment. You can't say that praying via a Saint isn't worshiping a false idol. The fact that you would have to pray to a Saint is somewhat like the Muslims that pray via Mohammed.
If the first church was the disciples of Christ who was their leader? Paul or Peter?
The throne of St. Peter is in Vatican, and not in Atlanta....
Greg
This has been an interesting discussion and I realize that I'm posting after the fact. My comment is for the author and in reference to the Catechism not fully stating the Commandment in question- Dear author of this blog, I know you referenced one paragraph number to support your argument; however it is an insufficient quote to suit your particular argument. If you read the entire section on this commandment you will find your question answered and very similar in fact to your own understanding.
However, it may be the case that your question has already been resolved and you’ve already discovered this for yourself! Like I said, I'm a little late to the table...
If you still have questions regarding this matter and the way the Catholic Church presents it, or any Catholic catechetical issue for that matter, please don't hesitate to ask.
In Christ,
Betsy
You only post comments that agree with your writings?????
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